Olivier Dussopt: “The goal of 50,000 job cuts in the state is very widely achievable”

Le secrétaire d The Secretary of State in charge of the Civil Service and Local Authorities, Olivier Dussopt. – BERTRAND GUAY / AFP

We have the objective to maintain as much as possible a point of physical contact by inter-municipality, I think it is possible. But it would be foolish and counterproductive to set a target target in terms of changes in Bercy’s workforce.


It is said that the National Education will not be spared … You will remove positions of teachers?

It is said that the National Education will not be spared ... You will remove positions of teachers?

Education, like other ministries, will use reorganizations to reform itself. This does not mean that we will necessarily remove teacher positions. In the continuity of the actions undertaken, the priority will be given to the first degree, in particular by continuing the duplication of the classes of CP and CE1 in priority education. Finally, we will also create some 6,000 positions (4,500 were created in 2018) for children with disabilities. At the same time, we will continue to create jobs in the justice or security sector.

Are you also aiming for a decrease of 70,000 jobs in the communities?

Are you also aiming for a decrease of 70,000 jobs in the communities?

Yes indeed, in the coming years, about 150,000 retirements are expected in the public service, of which a larger part in the communities. In the last 2-3 years, the trend is already down in the territorial civil service. I trust the communities to do this without intervening in their free administration. This is the meaning of the partnership we have built with them in the context of contractualization. We will also, in 2019, try to lower the costs of the communities, particularly those related to standards and staff costs.

Do you expect to review the working time of territorial officials?

We are part of the 1,607 hours of the 2000 Act. Two reports from the Court of Auditors and the Supreme Council of the Territorial Public Service have shown that, on average, the working time in the communities is less than this duration. Because some agents have special constraints (night work, etc.) but also because of the maintenance of local agreements prior to 2001. We must challenge them to ensure compliance with the 1.607 hours. It is also necessary to harmonize absence authorization schemes. Marriage leave, for example, varies from three days to ten. The goal is to have a single scale for the three sides of the public service.

Regarding local finances, what do you expect for the finance bill?

We promised to stabilize community endowments in 2018. I would like to remind you that the overall operating budget has even increased from 47.8 to 48.1 billion euros. Next year, we will be on the same trend, and there will not be the massive movement of “yoyo” endowments that may have known the municipalities and resulting from the reform of the intercommunal card that took place in 2017 to the following the adoption of the NOTRe law in 2015. There will be significantly fewer municipalities that will see their endowment fall. We also intend to maintain the level of local investment aid.

The communities ask to review the framing of their expenses with the State. Are you ready?

The communities ask to review the framing of their expenses with the State. Are you ready?

It’s too early to ask the question. We estimate, with my colleague Jacqueline Gourault, that the good period to evaluate these contracts is not the 2019 PLF. It is necessary to wait for one year of budget execution. The contracting out of an evolution of 1.2% of expenses is a “new grammar”, wanted by the Prime Minister, of the relationship State-collectivities. I also note that 70% of the communities concerned have signed this contract with the State.

Where are you on the reform of the public service?

Since February 1, we initiated working groups on four sites: the redesign of social dialogue, enlargement of contractual recruitment, the compensation structure and mobility. On the first two sites, we made a point of progress with the unions before the summer break.

We will work until the end of October on the other two, and then the discussions will be suspended to allow the trade unions to prepare the December 6 professional elections. We will then open a new consultation cycle on the bill we will have drafted. The goal is to introduce a bill in the first months of 2019.


What flexibilities will you introduce on the contractual?

What flexibilities will you introduce on the contractual?

There are several of them. For example, we intend to expand the right of contract recourse for local needs when there is a recruitment difficulty and to align the duration of contracts of category B and C agents (currently two years a year) with those of categories A (twice three years). We also want to create mission or project contracts (the name is not yet stopped) to allow public employers to get agent profiles and skills they do not have, and for the time the project without any commitment, nor from the employer nor the agent, to an entire career.

We will finally improve the conditions of employment of contract workers and work on their perspective of evolution in the public service. A meeting on the subject should take place in the coming days.

What are you going to do about pay?

From the beginning, we announced our intention to take into account the professional investment of the agents, in other words the merit, both at the collective and individual level. We will also look at the issue of premiums. The reform of 2014 to replace most of the bonuses and allowances existing in the public service of the State by a compensation system taking into account the functions, the subjections, the expertise and the professional commitment (RIFSEEP) concerns little agents: only 25% of state agents are now involved.

Its general architecture is interesting, with a cap on the indemnity portion at 30%, but it lacks a floor rate. Territorial employers have proposed to fix it between 10 and 15%. It seems to me a good idea.

What about the famous “voluntary departure plan”?

Again, there will not be a “voluntary” plan of departure. As part of the dialogue, we are working on tools to promote mobility within the public service and to the private sector. Every year, 4% of employees change positions while remaining in the public service, but in less than 1% of cases they change their coverage. It’s not enough. We will therefore be working on bridging courses and, in 2019, a digital platform will centralize all the job offers of the administrations, which will also be able to consult the employees of the private sector.

With regard to voluntary departures from the civil service, it should be noted that there is already an allowance which can be collected individually by certain resigning agents. Capped at two years of salary excluding bonuses, it concerns each year about 1,000 people in the state. We must re-examine the conditions of access. We also want to allow employers to set up collective schemes on a voluntary basis in case of restructuring of services.

The Constitutional Council has censored the extension of the list of positions of senior management that may be occupied by contractors in the law Avenir professionnel. What are you going to do ?

The government believes in this measure and will represent it. The Constitutional Council did not judge the substance of the measure. On the other hand, the maintenance of five-year promotion rights for officials who take up leave to pursue a professional activity will be able to come into force and it is a good thing to encourage mobility between the public and the private sector. We could extend it to parental leave.


How do you approach the negotiation on gender equality that starts today?

How do you approach the negotiation on gender equality that starts today?

I am pleased to note that the majority of the trade unions agree on the importance of this subject on which, I hope, we will be able to reach a broad agreement. The resulting legislation will be incorporated into the Public Service Transformation Bill.

What are your goals ?

That the provisions of the 2013 agreement, signed by all the unions, be implemented and that a new step be taken. We will work on several topics: the elimination of pay and career progression gaps of agents, access to jobs and responsibilities, better reconciliation between personal and professional life, prevention and the fight against sexual and sexual violence , and the introduction of financial penalties for public employers who would not play the game.

Correcting inequalities in salary and promotion requires financial means. You will have them?

I can tell you that, as a matter of principle, the public service, on all three fronts, can not sign an agreement whose provisions would be less ambitious than in the private sector. It is this objective that I pursue in the negotiations that I chair.